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Off the Record...
 We
spoke with Eisner Award winning Writer Paul Jenkins,
shortly after Wolverine: The Origin came out. Now, a
year and a half later, he returns to the furry mutant
for, possibly, Logan's final story. We caught up with
Paul recently to talk about his work on Wolverine: The
End, his thoughts on why Peter Parker: Spider-Man needed
to start over as Spectacular Spider-Man and why he has
no interest in writing about Iron Man.
CBEtc: How's married life treating you?
PJ: It’s been great. We got married about
a year and a half ago.
CBEtc: Has it spawned any new ideas for you
to write into your stories?
PJ: Hmmm… I’m sure it has. I have wanted
to write Mary Jane for a while. I wanted to write about
her and Peter (Parker) and about their relationship,
since I’m going through some of the same things.
CBEtc: Peter Parker: Spider-Man was canceled
and you and Humberto Ramos were brought back to launch
a new Spectacular Spider-Man series, which was the plan
all along. Do you feel it was necessary to start a new
series for you and Humberto to come back, or could you
have stayed with Peter Parker?
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"Our orders are probably 30,000 more
than before we started. To me it’s not so
much the extra sales as I’ve got 30,000 more
people reading my stories and that’s important
to me. "
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PJ: I would look at it this way. We did the four
Goblin stories together, and they were very popular. Obviously
Humberto and I fit very well together. We did very well
as partners. He understood what I wanted and I understood
what he wanted. So, keeping us together seemed like a
great idea.
The way it was explained to me, whether people liked it
or not, we wanted to make a larger audience for our book.
There is an in-built resistance, more from retailers than
from fans, to raise the orders on a book just because
of a new creative team. The ordering process is just such
a dinosaur. The formulas all used to work, but we are
so far past that in our comic book evolution. Over the
course of the book they looked at it and said whether
we like it or not we can keep it Peter Parker and hope
that the numbers catch up at some point because of the
old formulas, or we can do what makes more sense…
to give them a new title, to bring back “Spectacular
“and say this a new thing.
The mercenary aspect of it is that more people will buy
number one and that means that more people are going to
come back. It is absolutely true. Our orders are probably
30,000 more than before we started. To me it’s not
so much the extra sales as I’ve got 30,000 more people
reading my stories and that’s important to me.
CBEtc: What are your thoughts on starting a
series over with a new number one? Using the “Ultimates”
as an example, which are starting over after only 12-13
issues, versus the sales Batman received by bringing on
Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee on #608, where do you draw the line?
PJ: I think you draw the line when you obviously
become mercenary. In our case, who’s complaining?
We are selling more comics, more people are reading them.
Besides, I think the event of Jim Lee coming back is slightly
bigger than me and Humberto coming on. With his following
from the late 80’s and early 90’s it’s
a different kind of thing. That doesn’t diminish
what Jim does, because he does really good tuff, but Jim
is able to bring those fans in as well.
What I can hope for is to put out a decent amount of material.
I can bring people from [Wolverine] Origin and Humberto
can bring people because of his ability, but there must
be something to starting over at number one. The same
two of us could have done Peter Parker and sold 30,000
less. I can only speak for what I’m doing, and I
know that the two of us could have done a title with a
different set of words on the cover and it would have
sold 30,000 less.
CBEtc: You've stated that in each of the old
villains there is a metaphor waiting to be explained.
Venom was a metaphor for an unhealthy personal addiction.
The next story arc involves Doctor Octopus. What is he
a metaphor for?
PJ: Unlike the Green Goblin, who has passion,
he’s passionless. We’re talking about different
aspects of the criminal personality. Doc Ock is Ted
Bundy. He is remorseless. He is twisted. He has no heart,
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"Doc Ock is Ted
Bundy. He is remorseless. He is twisted. He has no heart,
no soul. He has no passion in a sense. Nothing pleases
him particularly, whether he says, “this pleases
me” or not. He is a metaphor for the kind person
you walk into who is utterly selfish, in many more ways
than one."
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no soul. He has no passion in a sense. Nothing pleases
him particularly, whether he says, “this pleases
me” or not. He is a metaphor for the kind person
you walk into who is utterly selfish, in many more ways
than one.
In a sense, you can’t say that would be true for
a character like Norman Osborn, because he has interests
in his grandson or in making an heir, or any of the other
things you consider a family oriented thing. In the case
of Doc Ock, he doesn’t really have any other considerations.
He simply thinks about himself. It was said of Ted Bundy
that he was unable to see other people’s point of
view. He had zero empathy. I certainly know people who
are unable empathize with anyone else’s situation.
So, really the story we are telling isn’t necessarily
metaphoric.
Some times it’s “With great power comes great
responsibility,” but with Electro it was with great
power comes lots of stuff. In Doc Ock’s case he doesn’t
strive for personal wealth. Although, he obviously does,
because you see him go out and rob banks and all sorts
of silly stuff. But, if he had the money, it makes no
difference to him. Nothing particularly makes him happy
except for his own personal pride, his own feelings. That’s
the kind of story we’re exploring with him.
CBEtc: You've announced that you have plans
to bring back some classic Spidey villains, like Lizard,
Elektro, Vulture and so on. But Hypno Hustler? Big Wheel?!?
When you mentioned your plans to us before, we didn't
know you were that serious. How did you convince Marvel
to bring these guys back?
PJ: [Laughs] Because they let me have a go at them!
Spider-Man has been a lot of things to a lot of people
for 40 plus years. In some ways there are humorous stories
with him. He is a humorous character. The Hypno Hustler
was intended to bring the fun aspect back again. This
story is about Hypno Hustler coming back and using his
music to make people trip out on acid. It’s a silly
story, but it’s very much a sort of slapstick story.
It’s more of a black humor kind of thing. Same with
the Vulture; we were planning to use him as a humorous
character. In issue 14 we are having Morbius the Living
Vampire, which is more of a story about a guy disabled
and he deals with it.
CBEtc: What would be the metaphor for Paul
Jenkin's writing career?
PJ: Good question. [Thinking]
I do not know the answer to that one. In some ways it’s
very difficult to assess your own career. You can’t
look at yourself and know where you fit in the whole industry.
What level have you attained? How happy are you making
the fans? The one thing I would I say is that every time
I write a book, I look towards the finished product. I
hope that the finished product is always worth the $2.50
or whatever someone pays for it. I hope people will remember
it. You can’t wish that for every issue, because
sometimes you’re doing set-up, and not every issue
can be better then the one before. I would hope the fans
would say “I paid him $2.50 every month and he paid
me back with a great story.”
CBEtc: Speaking of fans, do you have to be
hair-challenged to be a main stay on Wizard's Hot 10
Writers?
PJ: [Laughs] I can’t say…
CBEtc: Or, do you think "Wolverine: The End"
will get you back on the list?
PJ: It doesn’t make any difference to me.
The Wizard Top 10 isn’t a top priority for me.
My wife, however, gets great satisfaction from it. She
loves it. I hear “Why aren’t you on the Top
Ten?” Frankly, I’m not even sure whether I’m
on it or not (right now). The reason I knew I was on
it the first time was I got a lot of recognition and
calls about it. I’m just trying to be the best
writer I can be, you know?
CBEtc: You described Bill Jemas as a "really
smart dude." Are you sad to see him leave his current
role (as Marvel President)?
PJ: Yeah. Bill reminds me of a Soccer Manger.
He seemed very adept at getting his team to the point
they are very competitive. I can’t speak for Bill,
but Bill himself probably feels that he did better by
moving on. It’s one thing to build up and another
thing to maintain. Bill seems more of a “spark”
guy rather than a maintenance kind of guy. I’m
guessing he’s quite happy moving on.
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"The question is not “Where did I come
from?” but “Who am I?” But even
if he finds out about his past, if he can’t
remember it, and it has no impact on him, then
there is still that same question. I think the
ultimate answer with The End is who he is. We
get to see why he does the things he does. "
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CBEtc: Do you see any big shake-ups from new
publisher Dan Buckley?
PJ: No, not particularly. It’s whacky as
usual. I’m guessing Dan will not want to hold the
reigns of people as much as Bill did. That’s quite
a good thing, I think.
CBEtc: Speaking of which, in Origin you shared
some of the writing and plot duties with Bill Jemas and
Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada. Do you have more freedom
to let loose with "The End?"
PJ: Absolutely. The story is all mine this time.
I do work with Joe and my editor on some stuff, though.
CBEtc: When we last spoke, you explained your
wanting to write Origin by asking "How long can you
ride that horse? At a certain point, you’re beating
it to death. The character becomes an absolute cliche:
"Oh, I don’t know where I came from!" It’s
okay at first, but after 36 years, it becomes a bit old."
Well, The End is supposed to take place around 75 years
from current continuity. Is Logan still saying "Oh,
I don’t know where I came from?"
PJ: You’ll find out. [Laughs] It’s really
yes and no. The question is not “Where did I come
from?” but “Who am I?” But even if he finds
out about his past, if he can’t remember it, and
it has no impact on him, then there is still that same
question. I think the ultimate answer with The End is
who he is. We get to see why he does the things he does.
CBEtc: You've said that you do not see 75
years from now being anything like Star Trek. Rather,
people will still be wearing denim jeans and driving
cars. What do you think comics will be like in 75 years?
Do you think people will be reading them? Will they
be in a totally different format?
PJ: Years ago, people questioned that about books,
about TV, about the Internet. That’s the beauty
of a book, you can sit down and read it in linear fashion
and build the world in your mind. I submit that the
Hobbit and the Two Towers are much better when they
were in your mind. With comics you can flip back and
forth. You can enjoy the story and art. There are some
many good qualities to all forms of entertainment. Personally,
I’ve been working on video games lately. I’m
working on one right now, and I think they have the
great chance to be a legitimate art form. But we have
to make them that way. I think in 75 years comics will
still be around. I’m one of the few optimists in
comics.
CBEtc: In “Origin,” one of the big
questions was “Who the heck is Dog? Is he Sabretooth?”
When we asked you before, you said you weren’t
exactly sure and it would be up to the next writer to
explore it. Well, you’re the next writer. Do we
find out who "Dog" is in "The End?"
PJ: [Laughs] I’m not sure. Dog for the moment
is Dog. He’s not Sabretooth until he’s revealed
to be Sabretooth. Maybe he never is. The question will
be answered. Maybe it will be in “The End’”
maybe it won’t. We’ll have to wait and see.
CBEtc: Will casual fans of Wolverine, who
may not know all of the back-story, be able to follow
this series? Or, is this more for the die-hards?
PJ: I think you should be able to. I hope that
was the case with Origin.
CBEtc: Darkness is said to be your favorite
title to write. Like Wolverine and Peter Parker, Jackie
Estacado has some serious tragedy to play with. Is that
what you like so much?
PJ: I’ve always felt that when life was
good, I write tragedy and when life is hard I write
comedies. Don’t ask me why that is. I think tragedy
is part of the human condition. I find it is very hard
to write. Someone can say they are sad, but can you
demonstrate it?
CBEtc: Now that Cousin Paulie has nothing to
hold over Jackie anymore, the current storyline comes
to a dramatic conclusion in Darkness #6. It was pretty
intense!
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"Yeah, there’s a lot of violence, it’s
lovely. "
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PJ: Yeah, there’s a lot of violence, it’s
lovely. [Laughs]
CBEtc: You've mentioned you have very few
favorite characters because you love writing, no matter
who it is. Does that mean there are no characters you
just would never touch, that hold no interest to you?
PJ: There are some like Iron Man, who I wouldn’t
know what to do with it. I mean, I have some ideas,
like what does a man with all kinds of money really
need? I’m more interested in themes then having
to do a specific character.
CBEtc: Have you seen MTV's Spider-Man cartoon?
PJ: It’s great. It’s pretty interesting.
I’m for anything that broadens the fan base.
CBEtc: Let's talk about your Revelations project.
PJ: It’s a murder drama that revolves around
the Vatican. However, the main character is a lapsed
Catholic. He’s renounced his faith for personal
reasons. It’s interesting to have Humberto Ramos
drawing it, who is a Catholic, and myself writing it,
who doesn’t follow any particular religion. What
I like about it is that is similar to the “Inhumans.”
The story is set up to change your sympathies with each
issue.
CBEtc: What can fans expect from Paul Jenkins
in the future?
PJ: I’ve got a Batman mini-series with Jae
Lee this Spring (Batman: Jekyll and Hyde). I wanted
to get to the heart of Batman, so I looked at the various
villains that would help me tell that story. To me,
the best villain to put against Batman is Two-Face because
they are the same person in my opinion. Except, Two-Face
is Batman’s psychosis slightly evolved a little
bit further.
Batman is a dark character who has issues. Ironically,
he is a vigilante, which means he is actually breaking
the law. He justifies what he does, and believes he
has the moral clarity which allows him to do it but,
when pushed, probably couldn’t explain why. We
explore many issues in this mini-series. One is the
tragedy of him trying to rite one specific thing that
happened in his life. He can’t fix the death of
his parents because the only way to do that is bring
them back to life, and he knows that will never happen.
Another thing we look at is the Jekyll and Hyde aspect
of Bruce Wayne and Batman. Batman, like Hyde, is Bruce
Wayne’s liberation. Likewise, Two-Face has a similar
situation with his 2 personas. We look at Batman and
Two-Face with these 2 conflicting personalities. In
a sense, Two-Face is more honest with himself, while
Batman denies he prefers his darker side. I think it
is a fascinating story to explore.
Okay, now is the time for "2099" portion of
our interview. You did this in our last interview. It’s
basically an "either/or" type of response,
but you can answer whatever first pops into your head.
Some of the questions are new, some are repeats, to
see if you've changed any of your previous answers.
[Laughs] I’ll probably get them all wrong.
Ongoing or mini-series: Mini-series [Previous
answer: Ongoing]
Mac or PC: Mac
Mountains or Beach: Mountains
X-Men 1 or X-Men 2: X-Men 1
X-Box or PlayStation: I’ve got a PlayStation
Sean Connery or Pierce Bronson: Sean Connery! No
question.
Classic 60's Spidey cartoon or MTV's: Ummm…
MTV’s version.
Star Wars or Star Trek: Star Wars
CD or Vinyl: CD
John or Paul: Paul
Eat Out or Delivery: Eat Out
Locked in a room with Venom or J. Jonah Jameson:
[Laughs] Jameson
Super Heroes or Super Natural: Super natural
[Previous Answer: Super Heroes]. I find them both interesting.
Dogs or Cats: Cats. I have 3 dogs and a cat,
but I’m a cat guy.
Avengers or JLA: JLA
Webs - Shooters or Organic: Organic
Reality TV or Sitcoms: Pass [Laughs]
Easier to write - Tragedy or Comedy: It’s
a wash really
Sopranos or God Father: God Father
Buffy or Vampirella: Vampirella! Who’s
got the bigger breasts? That’s my answer in most
cases between two women! [Laughs]
WRITING CREDITS (Not official)
Batman: Jekyll and Hyde
G.I. Joe: Cobra Reborn
Wolverine: The End 1-6
Darkness 1 – current
Spectacular Spider-Man #1 – current
Peter Parker: Spider-Man
Wolverine: The Origin 1-6
The Universe
The Agency 1-6
Spider-Man Web Spinners #10-12
Witchblade
Incredible Hulk
The Sentry
The Inhumans 1-12
Hellblazer (4 year run)
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